- They finish eating. White says Black sees everything in black and white, and Black says it is black and white.
- Black says he doesn't try to understand the world or understand God, either; he just tries to understand what God wants from him. He doesn't disagree that he might have a narrow worldview, but it's kept him from feeling like killing himself.
- Black used to believe in the "primacy thing," but when he was chained to the infirmary bed in prison, he finally gave it up. He asked God to help him, and God did.
- There's a long silence, and then Black says that's really his story. He tries to follow Jesus and catch himself when he slips back to thinking he's in charge.
- White still finds Black's perspective nonsensical—he doesn't think it amounts to a view of things.
- Black asks what White would do if Jesus spoke to him, and White says he'd check himself into an insane asylum, even if what Jesus said made sense.
- Black thinks that's a pretty bad case of believing the intellect always needs to come first. White says he's always gone his own way, quoting Martin Luther: "Ich kann nicht anders." ("I can do nothing else.")
- Leading off from this German quotation, they talk about culture and education. White says the Germans gave a lot to civilization… but then they also gave Hitler. Oops. White says he takes it that Black thinks too much knowledge and education make people miserable.
- Black says he didn't say that—White did.
- White says that's the meaning of the Garden of Eden story and the whole biblical fall of man: Knowledge (eating from the Tree of Knowledge) leads to destruction. From the God point-of-view, says White, knowledge is vanity or it makes you think you're smarter than the devil.